Insound.com
March, 2001
Robyn Hitchcock Interview
by Steve Lowenthal
In 1980, The Soft Boys, fronted by the brilliant Robyn Hitchcock, released one of the greatest albums of their generation, Underwater Moonlight. Out of print for many years, Matador Records has seen fit to reissue Underwater Moonlight in all its glory with bonus tracks and a second disc of rehearsals entitled ...And How It Got There. The album holds up as a classic. Simply, Underwater Moonlight is as amazing as Television's Marquee Moon or Nick Drake's Pink Moon. It's a perfect record that never got its due. The reformed Soft Boys are touring for the first time in 20 years in support of the reissue. Although their fate is still unclear one thing is for sure; this is one reunion that won't suck.
How and when did The Soft Boys decide to get back together to do a tour?
It was about last July. Underwater Moonlight was out of print. It's the one Soft Boys album that there was a still a demand for and it was definitely the best Soft Boys album -- the one which works best. We thought we'd look for someone to release it and at the same time we auditioned ourselves to see if we could still play together -- to see if we could play those songs, that kind of stuff. And it was fun and we enjoyed it. We decided to have another rehearsal the following month in the old place that we used to rehearse. Actually, I'm not sure if we rehearsed much there, but we used to record there. It's a very, kind of, damp place with a lot of fungus in it. You can hear the trains going by overhead. Anyway, they put a coffee machine in it, and a shower in the toilet. The air conditioner worked a bit better. But other than that, it was the same. So there we were. We enjoyed getting together every month, and started to book the tour. And there you have it.
Did it bring back a lot of memories rehearsing in the same place that you used to record in?
Yeah, it was odd when you looked in the mirror because -- especially when you're playing a song you haven't played for 20 years -- and then you look around and see yourself as one of a quartet of middle-aged guys playing this song. Last time you played it you were 50 pounds lighter with long dark hair and a mean look in your eye. Now you're this, kind of, gray-haired gent, plucking away on a Telecaster, surrounded by people that you can recognize were your colleagues when you were younger. I mean, we're not very old for filmmakers or authors, or even actors. We're all probably younger than Harrison Ford. But we are definitely old for Rock musicians. It's just very funny seeing this difference panning back from that face in the mirror via my friend standing there playing away on their instruments.
How did it sound?
It sounded great. It sounds much better than it looks. I'm thinking of putting a black screen over the stage. I think we should put The Soft Boys behind the screen, and then people could listen to it.
You could just project your silhouettes onto a screen like PIL did and have just your shadows playing.
They've done that, have they? I think you need to see people's faces. I don't know why, but it helps to see their expressions. I don't think it would be enough just to listen to it. But actually what would be really great would be to get four, sort of, young, gorgeous guys to stand there and mime while we played in the background. But we sound great. We're more relaxed, I think. Everyone says they're more relaxed. Also I think we've played a hell of a lot...well Morris, Kimberley, and I have certainly since then. Matthew has had a few years off being a lawyer. He's getting back into it now. It feels better. It's different. Maybe "better" is the wrong word. I think it could be the dreaded word "mellow". I've always hated Middle-Aged Mellow Rock. Let's just say it's good-natured. It doesn't sound mellow like '70s West Coast stuff (or something).
It's not James Taylor mellow?
No! No! No! The whole reason I got into music was to help stamp out James Taylor. Obviously it didn't work if you (meaning the interviewer) are only 21: he persisted into your consciousness. I'm sure he's a lovely guy. But that kind of music was really the anti-Christ to me.
Going back to 1980, what was the musical environment like? What else was going on around you at the time?
At the time, I suppose people like XTC and The Pretenders and The Psychedelic Furs had just got going (who were acquaintances of ours). We all liked The Furs. There was Teardrop Explodes. I mean, the Punk bands like Siouxsie And The Banshees and The Jam (and all that lot) were still going. The Damned had already split up and re-formed a couple of times. People like Elvis Costello and Squeeze we doing very well.
How did The Soft Boys fit into that?
We didn't at all. All those people had major record deals and records on the charts. They were working all over the world. They had roadies and groupies and accountants, and we were just schlepping around England in a van (if we were lucky). We just played London and Cambridge. We made it to New York for one legendary trip. We had eight gigs in New York in twelve days. It was a brilliant scheme set up by the guy who was both our record company and our manager, Richard Bishop. Richard actually, interestingly enough, manages the reformed Psychedelic Furs and Lou Reed (amongst others). We were on a tiny label that Richard formed. He worked in an import/export company and got hold of a bit of money somewhere. He borrowed it off his dad, I think, and decided to start a label. If it wasn't for his initiative and enterprise, I don't think we would have gotten Moonlight out. We certainly didn't have any friends at majors labels in Britain. In terms of the business, all those people were way ahead and you can undoubtedly catch the drops of envy in my voice as I look back. The skinny little envious guy that I was -- well, not skinny, but tall. Musically we were actually closer to people like XTC, Squeeze, and Costello, but that didn't really come through until the late-'80s with Robyn Hitchcock And The Egyptians, and then we were all, kind of, up in the college charts together. I suppose then I was on the same map as those people, but in The Soft Boys days they were all way ahead. We were also slightly more old-fashioned. Those bands, kind of, managed to squeeze through the New Wave keyhole and come out if not Punk bands -- then suitably dressed for the modern world. We made no bones about being essentially long-haired psychedelic people. Not like The Grateful Dead, but coming out of '66 or '67, if you like. That made it hard for us to get accepted as the other bands did. They put more of a late-'70s spin on it, if you like. I didn't bother. By the late-'80s, I think we were all actually producing fairly similar kinds of music -- which I would say was basically first generation son-of-Beatles music.
You mentioned before a little resentment of some your more successful peers.
Well it wasn't their fault that we weren't successful. But I did feel frustrated, yes.
Theoretically, though, suppose "He's A reptile" did become a hit. I mean, people don't really listen to Squeeze anymore, but Underwater Moonlight is considered to be a great, lost album. That must kind of be more rewarding now that you're not looked upon as some New Wave one-hit-wonder.
Well, they'd probably be playing the same venues as us. It doesn't matter. In a way it depends what your intentions were. My intention was never to be a Pop star. I think we were all surprised at how hard it was for us in The Soft Boys to get heard -- to make a living, if you like. In the end it was impossible, and we split up and went our own ways. At the same time I always wanted to become a cult figure. If you looked me up in a Rock encyclopedia now, that's exactly what I am. Kimberley did want to be in a Pop group, and wrote "Walking On Sunshine" [with Katrina And The Waves] and was in a Pop group. He achieved that for himself. I'm sure Squeeze just wanted to make a living and write good songs, which they did. Somewhere along the line I probably didn't want things to be too easy for myself or for the audience. But that kind of thing means that you work a bit harder and it's a slightly more special record. So I'm glad people like it still.
Getting to the specifics of some of those songs, do you think the subjects of songs like "Insanely Jealous" has heard the song and knows it's about them?
I don't know, actually. There's a few songs there written about the same person. "Kingdom Of Love" and "Tonight", to name but two. She was very much my muse for a long period, and although I have seen her once or twice over the years I have no idea if she is aware of any of this. I rather hope she's not, actually. I wouldn't want anyone to know that they had that much power over me. The truth is that they stimulated my imagination, and if hadn't been her, it would've been someone else. I did build an enormous posthumous cult around a particular girl that I had been involved with when I was younger. All those songs are for her.
Even "I Wanna Destroy You"?
No, not entirely. "I Wanna Destroy You" has a personal element in it, but it's also a love song to the human condition. It's just a song of extreme frustration at the ways things go. It seems to apply now as much as it did then. I wrote it when Reagan was on his way in, and now there's Bush.
Were you surprised at the reaction to Underwater Moonlight at the time? What were your expectations for the record when it came out?
I can't remember. I don't know, actually. I think by then we knew that there was very much them-and-us. There was the music industry, and there were The Soft Boys. The two really weren't connected. We had the odd journalist who was kindly disposed toward us. I certainly didn't think it was going to get in the charts (or anything). We thought it was good. We, kind of, made it for our own benefit. I think we had given up trying to impress the world by then, or hope that the world would get it. Everything that The Soft Boys had done, coming from this rarefied...if there is such a thing as a chilly hothouse in Cambridge -- a cold house, if you like...there were always some people who thought we were good. There were a lot of people who thought we were terrible. We didn't understand, we thought, "Are we terrible, or are they just not hearing it the way we are?" You can never solve that. You can never prove that one person sees the color red the way you see the color red. But you both call it red. We retreated to just playing for ourselves, really.
Let's talk about the process of the reissue. The Matador reissue has so much stuff on it. Do you think it's beneficial to have everything -- all the rehearsals and the album all together? What do you think about it? When I listen to the reissue, I'm surprised at how many of the outtakes were really good. It certainly made me wonder about the selection process.
I think that it's all worth releasing. I think in a way it's a shame that it's all on the same disc. But this is the problem with compact discs. The vinyl version is three discs: one is Underwater Moonlight, one is the outtakes, and one is the rehearsals. So you can appreciate them as three separate entities. Having said that, I think the other stuff is good enough to release. That's the trouble with CD's: they get overloaded. People see 17 minutes of time, so they decide to put 17 minutes of songs on there that you probably don't need. I think Underwater Moonlight is only 40 minutes or less. I would urge people to listen to them in sections. The rehearsal tapes, I think, are just fun. I was surprised how good the group was, just standing there jamming. Although I still think we're a great band now when we play, we don't sound like we did then. So I'm glad we documented that.
An album like Marquee Moon (which I think is perfect beginning to end), I don't think I'd want to hear any more.
You wouldn't want to hear Marquee Moon parts one, two, and three? I know what you mean. It's one of those things like, "Should The Beatles have released the Anthology tracks?" I guess the thing is that there are people who want to hear it, so you release it. If enough people want you to release something you probably will unless you really think it's terrible. I think all this stuff is good. But the first ten tracks are definitely the best.
Judging from the amount off stuff left off the album, you guys were incredibly prolific. What do you think about that time and place that was conducive to such creativity?
Well, I think I just, sort of, worked up how to write songs, really. I started trying to write songs since I was 17, with my friend Martin up at school. It took me nine years to write anything decent, really. There are a few early Soft Boys songs that I like, but most of them don't really make it. It's not until "Queen Of Eyes" or "Insanely Jealous" that I was any good as a songwriter. I think thereafter I really liked songwriting because I learned how to do it. I don't know what I discovered, but I began to be a good songwriter. We not only recorded Moonlight, but I also started recording a solo record in about June 1980 -- Black Snake Diamond Roll -- which came out the following summer (at which point The Soft Boys ceased to be). I've had periods since then that I haven't written songs in a while. But I've really had big songwriting binges ever since. 1980 was the first.
What are your hopes for the current reunion and tour? Do you see it as closure, or a new beginning of collaboration with The Soft Boys?
It's a celebration, really. I'm really glad that the record has lasted (and, indeed, we're all alive). We've lasted, and the four of us can still play together. And there's stills some juice in the battery. What we do after the tour, we'll see. My main concern is that we'll survive the tour. If we're all there at the end of it, I can see us doing something, yeah. Maybe more on the lines of recording than touring. We're all, kind of, entering our late-40s now, so I don't know how much time we'd want to spend on the road. I've toured The States every year since 1985. I'd be happy to do a bit less.
The last time I saw you was in Boston with Flaming Lips and Sebadoh. Judging by those sets I expected you to put out an album with Sebadoh [Sebadoh served as Robyn's band for that show].
That would be nice, yeah. That would be great, actually! I mean, I really enjoyed doing that. The sets were in The States, so to work with them on a regular basis I'd have to be there. Well, I am there a lot, so I wouldn't rule that out, definitely (although Lou has got the Folk Implosion as well). I know Jason and Russ offered to be a rhythm section. That would be a great idea. Did you like that?
It was fantastic, and a great surprise. The four of you sounded great. I know they were just backing you then, but I'd be more-than intrigued to hear the fruits of that collaboration.
That would be great. I'd love to do that. Sometimes I just go around and work with different people. The last album I did for Warner Brothers, Jewels For Sophia, I had lots of people. Grant-Lee Phillips was on it, the Young Fresh Fellows, Peter Buck, and Kimberley Rew. I just go to different cities and find people who I want to record with -- which is often the way to do it.
I'd imagine at this point in your career, playing with different people would be essential to the process.
As a postscript to your question about doing something in the future with The Soft Boys: it could definitely happen, but I couldn't see us in a monogamous musical situation. The four of us were together, and that was it. Now it would be part of whatever we wanted to do musically. Morris has a band called "The Gliders" who put out quite a good album. Sort of, British R&B. Everyone's got their own things to do.
What do you think continues to inspire you as a musician?
I suppose just not being dead yet. Not being dead, but knowing that it's closer every day. That, sort of, gives an edge to things. I've always felt that -- even when I was younger. I could always see the skull over my shoulder grinning, pointing at the page in front of me.
Any other upcoming projects besides The Soft Boys?
Well, there's this novel I've been working on for the last seven years (and I pretty much have land in sight there). With a bit of luck, I'll finish that sometime soon. There's some TV work I'm doing with Grant-Lee Phillips out in L.A.. It's someone else's show, but we'll be guesting on it. But we're kinda hoping some kind soul in Burbank is going to give us our own MTV show: The Grant Lee Hitchcock Show.
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