Portland Online Musicnet
June 23, 2000
Robyn Hitchcock & Grant-Lee Phillips
by Queenie
Underappreciated by most, these two singer-songwriters find themselves in the same musical boat. Both recently parted ways with Warner Brothers, both have released label-free records available for purchase from their respective websites (www.robynhitchcock.com and www.grantleephillips.com), and both are unsung heroes in a world of plastic Pop stars and one-hit-wonders.
One can't help but think, "Surely a small part of them still dreams of mega-Rock-stardom!" But after talking with these two intelligent, well-spoken fellows, I suspect that they are both perfectly content where they are -- unfettered by the constraints and pressures of a major label. Both have a solid, loyal fan-base and neither shows the signs of an inevitable fade into obscurity that less sincere artists might.
After playing together four or so times on their brief West Coast stint, the between-song patter was pretty well-honed, and by the time they reached Portland they had us in stitches. Grant does a terrific impression of William S. Burroughs, by the way.
After playing their own songs, one playing and singing backup for the other as they took turns, they favored us with a few choice covers, including a few David Bowie songs, The Beatles, and The Everly Brothers. But the showstopper of the night was, without a doubt, an absolutely camp rendition of "Kung Fu Fighting", in which Robyn put down his guitar and danced about, clapping and chopping at the air. I laughed until my mascara ran into my eyes.
After the show, Robyn and Grant, with an entourage of very hungry people, came out into the seats for a quick interview. Both seemed to notice for the first time the small balconies on either side of the stage.
Grant-Lee: We should have sang to each other from these little...portholes -- we could have been in a dream. And I could have been there, and you could have been there -- harmonizing across the room.
Robyn: Yeah, actually if we had radio mics...
Grant-Lee: Aw man...
Robyn: Now you see it from the audience's perspective, it's totally different.
Grant-Lee: It is.
Robyn: Could have put the camera crew onstage and just been up in those dueting boxes.
I think that would have gone over really well.
Grant-Lee: It would have. We could have been hooked up with a harness and, sort of, a Peter Pan flying wire.
Robyn: Probably that's more for you than me, but that's a nice idea...anything you want to know, particularly? We're in earshot.
Grant-Lee: Two things off limits: inseam for one.
Inseam...all right.
Grant-Lee: We don't talk about it. I think that's it, really.
So the boxers-or-briefs question is no good?
Grant-Lee: "Boxers-or-briefs question?" That's good! I like that!
Actually, I wasn't going to ask that. I did want to ask -- you both
released your latest records, if I'm right, strictly on the Internet and at shows like this -- but not in stores.
Robyn: Actually Grant, yours is in stores a bit, isn't it?
Grant-Lee: Initially, it was something that was only available through the website -- you could click on there and that would hook you up to some folks who would mail it to you within 48 hours. Now it's at a few different online services, but it's also available at a few mom-and-pop stores, and even at a couple of [other] stores across the country. It's, sort of, salt-and-pepper-ed around the country. By and large, the website is still the place -- and the shows -- where I tend to get it out into the world.
So has that been successful for you both?
Robyn: Seems to be, yeah. It doesn't take that long for the whole thing to go into profit, which is nice. And it's comparatively easy because it's comparatively simple. Again, as long as you're...once you get caught up in the whole business of distribution, then that would start to get costly because you have to start paying people to do that. It may be that that follows on, but certainly the initial thing is strong enough just through the website and gigs. And it gives you a very basic security -- it means that for people like Grant and I, our website is also our record company. You aren't going to get involved in the higher ramifications of marketing. Your website isn't going to be able to fly millions of radio programmers in to a gig and things like that, but it's a moot point whether that makes any difference anyway.
Grant-Lee: One thing Robyn and I have discussed on our various travels is this realization that there's an intimate aspect to the both of us -- and some folks would argue that that's perhaps one of our finest aspects -- so approaching our distribution in a, kind of, intimate way seems to suit us as well. There's a feeling when you're beginning in all of this that the people that come to your shows are very emotionally invested in it -- you can sense that -- but as the machine swallows you up and begins to service your product (if we want to call it that), then it becomes less human and becomes less intimate, and we tend to lose our way. This makes a lot more sense, really.
Robyn: I don't know if the statistic is true, but supposedly, most albums that sell over a million or two million copies are only played once by the purchaser. In other words, the mega-sale that the company's after where
you're selling five or ten million copies -- you're selling to people who aren't going to listen to them. Basically, the role is to try and sell music to people that don't care about music. You're meant to start with this, sort of, hard-core enthusiasm that people like Grant and I have, but it's then meant to mushroom out into this, sort of, very watered-down stuff. Like people who go to gigs so they can go get stoned in the parking lot or whatever -- sixty thousand people turn up, it's an affair for people to come to, or a big festival, but they're not necessarily into the music. So we're basically at the very, very undiluted end, which is very small -- it's very concentrated. It seems to be one of the laws that the bigger it gets the, sort of, blander and more disengaged it becomes.
Grant-Lee: I think it's kind of a testament that as expansive as Robyn's catalog is, folks come every night and shout out song requests that span beyond a decade. And these people know the words probably as well as Robyn -- and he
knows them pretty well. That's a pretty satisfying thing, when you know that there's that kind of investment. And I don't know that you're going to find that necessarily when it becomes all about a hit single.
Robyn: No. In fact, from my experience of heavy radio exposure for certain things, that kind of stuff seems to wash off very quickly as well. And the stuff you had with the...
Grant-Lee: Sure...
Robyn: It's a, kind of, superficial triumph that potentially can make you
money, but...
Grant-Lee: And you always know...
Robyn: Does anybody really care?
Grant-Lee: You always know when you get to that song in the set, and you do it, and then you sense as though the evening is basically over for that portion of the audience. They're on their way to their cars.
I've often wondered how somebody with ten, fifteen, twenty years in the business that hasn't had a string of radio hits -- how you come up with a setlist? You've got this massive catalog....
Robyn: Well, it's easier, I think, because if you have had a string of radio hits, you've really got to play them or you disappoint the audience. They've come to hear the hits. Obviously there are better-known songs of mine -- people will holler out for the Dead Wife song, "Balloon Man"...
"Madonna Of The Wasps"...
Robyn: Madonna, yeah...which is nice -- at least I wrote them. But I don't have to play them every time. And we don't do anything off Jubilee...
Grant-Lee: Is that true?
Robyn: Or off Perspex Island. We're not doing the songs we had to lip-synch to: we're just doing the songs that we like. And to a certain extent, we've slightly A&R-ed each other. Grant's, sort of, picked up some quite old stuff of mine. And there's a lot of stuff off your new one that I'm encouraging us to play.
Grant-Lee: Right, that's true.
Robyn: You said you try to avoid playing stuff off your new record.
Grant-Lee: Yeah. I went on the road back in March, and I have to admit there's a part of me that felt a bit obligated to play certain songs -- that were associated with the band -- that were probably more well-known, even though I was also selling an album and promoting an album that I just created within a month or so of that tour. That's kind of a strange thing, but Robyn's been really encouraging about that: to push a lot of the intimate stuff.
Robyn: Well, it's a good record. There's great songs on the Buffalo albums, but this one's probably...the most intimate one you've done. So the songs connect fairly quickly and fairly deeply, I think. Particularly, my
favorite is "Loneseom Serenade" and "Don't Look Down". So we've, sort of, [encouraged] each other a bit. We don't have to lurch off and play our greatest flops.
What is...this is kind of broad, vague question, but what is on the musical horizon for each of you individually?
Grant-Lee: "Musical horizon." Sort of like that Benjamin Franklin answer -- is it a setting sun or a rising sun?
In the future (if you like that better).
Grant-Lee: Gosh, that's an interesting question. It's sort of an ongoing process. It's not necessarily like there's some, sort of, goal, or some, sort of, carrot at the end of the stick. I'm constantly recording, constantly writing and performing. It's likely that I'll continue to put records out in this very independent way. I may go another round with a label if a record warrants that. It's likely that Robyn and I may find it in our schedules to do this type of tour together again.
Robyn: Yeah, we might get a gig in New Zealand. We're trying to see if we can get some gigs in Arizona. [Everyone laughs] In fact, that's the great phantom project, is to try and play...what were we going to do? From Salt Lake City across to New Orleans. But whether we'll do it is...but hopefully we'll do something. My stuff is more...I'm just kind of tidying up after myself. I've got a lot of old...I'm actually finishing a novel that's my main thing at the moment. I've been working on it for a while between records, now it's my major thing. Hopefully it will be ready to put out next year -- released. And I've got lots of old back-catalog stuff to sort out -- there's a Soft Boys record which is out of print. So I'll probably be consolidating my stuff through The Museum Of Robyn Hitchcock, or Editions
PAF! -- which is the label wing -- which my new record Star For Bram is on (which is actually the companion one to Jewels For Sophia). I'm just choked with all this stuff -- I've got about three or four years of biographies and all sorts of things to wade through, and then I'll make a new record. But it won't be any time soon. I've just been going for so long that there's an awful lot of, just, stuff to tidy up and clean up and figure where it goes. Also, you know, in a few years there won't be product anymore. The line between radio and records will have melted, and you'll just turn on the taps and it'll just come out like that.
Grant-Lee: Like some black liquid.
Robyn: Yeah. And we the artists have to figure out how we get paid in the middle of all that. That's the main thing. Otherwise, the only source of income will be doing gigs -- or if they make our songs into a musical.
I'm going to be up all night now trying to imagine that. [Deafening silence as my joke falls onto the floor and flops about like a dying fish.]
Robyn: So it's all moving along...I can't think of the right way of putting it...it's like a plane coming in to land, but as the plane comes in to land, the runway is also in motion. That's the way it feels at the moment.
So you're really very busy -- no intention of slowing down.
Robyn: No, no, not really.
I guess people are just so used to you constantly touring that they're kind of shocked at the small number of dates you're playing this summer.
Robyn: I did an awful lot of touring last year. I did far too much. I'm definitely cutting back on that. But I wanted to do this with Grant. And I think the main thing also for me is to keep making the show slightly different. I was with Tim's band (and Kimberley) last year. Then I was on my own. Then I was with The Egyptians. It's good not to keep coming back with the same shows in the same places, so each time there's a different element to it. But the Grant Lee Hitchcock show has quite a lot of possibilities...but again, we don't know what they are.
It was really fun, I had a good time.
Robyn: Oh, glad you liked it.
By now, the restless, hungry entourage was more than ready to bolt to the nearest restaurant to eat. After thanking them and bidding them farewell, I walked to my car, pleased to have been witness to a performance by a match truly made on Mars.
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